Posts by Number 6

24

1974 and all that

by Number 6 in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xznh9icm1os.

i came across this footage recently whilst searching for something completely unrelated and it blew me away!.

it's from the august 1974 convention at murrayfield, edinburgh and you can clearly see the stage set up still keeping the 6000 years and 1975 mantra going.. what makes this very personal for me is that i was here.

Number 6

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzNh9IcM1Os

I came across this footage recently whilst searching for something completely unrelated and it blew me away!

It's from the August 1974 Convention at Murrayfield, Edinburgh and you can clearly see the stage set up still keeping the 6000 years and 1975 mantra going.

What makes this very personal for me is that I was here. Not being filmed directly, but its entirely possible I am in the background somewhere. But 4 year old me was there at that convention.

Also, this is the convention my mother was baptized at as a young 26 year old.

She's now 75 and I am 53. So much for "any day now" some 49 years later.

But what made me very sad looking at it was that even the middle aged people and older in that footage will all be dead now. A lot of people my mothers age will also be gone as indeed will some my own age. Thousand upon thousands in that stadium that weekend pinning their hopes on 1975 the next year. All let down and failed by The Watchtower.

What a waste.

The YouTube poster has lots of JW Cine footage over the decades. Well worth a watch, but being honest, left me feeling very weird after watching it.

55

"Independent" Scotland joke!

by BoogerMan in

humza yousaf, scotland's first minister, said: "scotland, i'm afraid, is suffering because we are not independent.

" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-66012834.

try telling that to scotland's tourists and many island communities: the ferry services are dying month by month, and the two new overdue & over-budget ferries justify a serious legal/criminal enquiry.. any bunch of incompetents who can't provide a small country with a ferry service and a legally binding contract to build 2 new boats - having controlled scotland since 2007 - has no credibility in claiming they could run a country!.

Number 6

Yep, what cofty said as well.

55

"Independent" Scotland joke!

by BoogerMan in

humza yousaf, scotland's first minister, said: "scotland, i'm afraid, is suffering because we are not independent.

" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-66012834.

try telling that to scotland's tourists and many island communities: the ferry services are dying month by month, and the two new overdue & over-budget ferries justify a serious legal/criminal enquiry.. any bunch of incompetents who can't provide a small country with a ferry service and a legally binding contract to build 2 new boats - having controlled scotland since 2007 - has no credibility in claiming they could run a country!.

Number 6

I can only speak from a personal perspective.

My opinion is that most peoples desire in Scotland pro or against independence is not driven by financial or economic matters but what's inside them personally.

For me I am a Scottish resident, English born of a Scottish Mother and English Father. As British as its possible to get i suppose. I have lived in Scotland for about 46 of my 53 years. My first 2 then a 5 year period 1998-2003.

Two of my five children are English born, the other three Scottish.

The SNP get their way, they make me foreigner in my own country.

Not if I have anything to say about it!

That said, my experience of talking to pro-independence minded people is that they also don't care about financial and or economic consequences.

Freedom at any price is the usual mantra I have come across.

For most of the past 20 years the SNP has been led by 2 very charismatic leaders who engaged with Scotland. That is now gone.

The next General Election, probably in just over a year will be very interesting.

Edited to add: I do however support the right of Scotland to determine this if the majority vote for it in an election which gives a mandate for a further referendum.

But like the 2014 one, I don't think a Yes vote is a foregone conclusion.

22

Commenting Ban?

by Iamallcool in

jw
friends

do you think the watchtower will ban commenting at the meetings one day?

if you are pimo, you might want to try to make some comments to make others think about the “truth”!

.

Number 6

@St George of England.

I well remember David Carter. He was in Scotland in the late 1980's and did Q&A from the Circuit Assembly platform.

Had the audience in stitches.

I well remember WT conductors who would engage with audience members who could deliver interesting and instightful answers.

I havent been inside a KH in over 30 years, but the boredom level now must be off the scale if it is simply parroting answers back of the page!

33

When was your last Kingdom Hall meeting?

by RULES & REGULATIONS in

i stopped going to kingdom hall meetings about nine years ago.

i was fading for the longest time, refused to go out in field service, dropped out of the ministry school talks, no longer answered at the watchtower study, arrived at the meetings the last second, and left as soon as possible.

i couldn't take attending the meetings any longer.

Number 6

My first wife left not long after we were married 30 years ago. I was initially in a lot of guilt but stopped going because she did within a few months in early 1991.

For the next 10 years I lived in mortal fear of the big A.but in 2000 got on line and the rest is history.

The only connection I still have is my mother who si PIMI but does the congnitive dissonance thing and still associates with me and my second wife (who was never a JW).

I have blatantly told my mother if she ever choses her religion over he family her feet won't touch the floor on the way out. The loss will be entirely hers.

She still keeps coming.

20

How Often is 1914 Openly Spoken of at the Meetings?

by Number 6 in

as someone who left in 1991 aged 21, one of my overriding memories of growing up in the watchtower was being able to "prove" the end times by referencing 1914.. major change in 95 then again after that.

if i'm being honest i could not even tell you now what the current teaching is.. for those who still attend the meetings, is it still openly spoken about?

i genuinely curious as i wonder if the teaching will be altogher dropped eventually, and one of the easiest ways to achieve that is to stop speaking about it.

Number 6

As someone who left in 1991 aged 21, one of my overriding memories of growing up in the Watchtower was being able to "prove" the end times by referencing 1914.

Major change in 95 then again after that. If I'm being honest I could not even tell you now what the current teaching is.

For those who still attend the meetings, is it still openly spoken about? I genuinely curious as I wonder if the teaching will be altogher dropped eventually, and one of the easiest ways to achieve that is to stop speaking about it.

If it's not in talk material or books, then it won't be referenced in talks or answers.

Just curioius.

77

A question about the contemporary generation teaching following a conversation with a JW apologist

by Giles Gray in

i would like to ask the ex-jws on this site to put their ‘apologists hat’ back on for a moment, so that i can go through the overlapping generation teaching in an attempt to make sense of it.

i apologise if these points have already been addressed on this site.a quick background for the reason for my request… having never confronted a jw apologist on the topic, i recently engaged with a jw regarding the official understanding of a ‘generation’ and unfortunately he didn’t have an answer to the points i was making.

i was left a little confused as to what the official jw response would/should be.so i was hoping that my thoughts below might be considered from an apologist’s perspective.the point in question relates to this section of the watchtower article below from 2008, as well as the jw.org video explanation of the overlapping generation:---:w08 2/15[box on page 25] can we calculate the length of “this generation”?the word “generation” usually refers to people of various ages whose lives overlap during a particular time period or event.

Number 6

The March 15th 1980 Watchtower (the one that "apologised" for 1975) comes to their rescue here.

In the same article "Choosing The Best Way of Life" in para 4 (the one immediately preceeding their apology) states:

"If we remain faithful, God will not let us make ruinous mistakes. But sometimes he permits us to be in error so that we may see our need to look always to him an his Word. ..... We learn from our mistakes that it is necessary to be more careful in the future"

So... the perfect get out clause. Oh our understanding was flawed between 19xx and 20xx because God allowed us to make a mistake! They can make up any old shit they like and get out of it a few years later using the above excuse.

If they could get out of the 1975 debacle using that excuse then they can use it for anything!

30

Would Watchtower Ever Risk Setting Another Date

by Number 6 in

there was a 50 year gap between the failed dates of 1925 and 1975.. memories fade, people die, and who cares what was said 50 years ago.. most jw's now in the religion werent there when 1975 was a thing.

even my mother who was baptized in 1974 who i do remember speaking about it back in the day, can barely remember what the fuss was about.

for active jw's who are doing all there studying online now, its practically impossible to find any wt contemporary reference to 1975.. i read recently (sorry i cant source it right now) that at the time, even watchtower may have taken the view that even if they knew 1975 was wrong, the short term gains would far outstrip those who left leading to an overall net gain so it was a risk worth taking.

Number 6

There was a 50 year gap between the failed dates of 1925 and 1975.

Memories fade, people die, and who cares what was said 50 years ago.

Most JW's now in the religion werent there when 1975 was a thing. Even my mother who was baptized in 1974 who I do remember speaking about it back in the day, can barely remember what the fuss was about. For active JW's who are doing all there studying online now, its practically impossible to find any WT contemporary reference to 1975.

i read recently (sorry I cant source it right now) that at the time, even Watchtower may have taken the view that even if they knew 1975 was wrong, the short term gains would far outstrip those who left leading to an overall net gain so it was a risk worth taking. I have been doing a bit of research lately into the 1975 prediction, and there is no doubt it spurred on activity and was a massive shot in the arm to WT at the time.

So... nearly 50 years on after 1975, do you think they would try it again. Short term boost in numbers, get them in and captive, those that woudl leave arent worth having anyway?

17

Thunderous Applause Around The Stadium

by Number 6 in

growing up in the 70's and 80's in the jw religion who remembers the massive stadium gigs the watchtower used to hold?.

we used to denounce false religion in the starkest of terms.

we were right and by god we were letting anyone who listened know it.

Number 6

Growing up in the 70's and 80's in the JW religion who remembers the massive stadium gigs the Watchtower used to hold?

We used to denounce false religion in the starkest of terms. We were right and by god we were letting anyone who listened know it. Governing Body members would attend conventions, the urgency of the end times was impressed upon us, and literature released to provide us with spiritual food to help us preach the good news with all urgency. The GB member would call out Babylon the Great with all their anger and the stadium would erupt into a frenzy of appaluse.

We were right and everyone would know it. The convention would end with 15,000 persons singing their heart out and a fervernt prayer; all would depart home filled with zeal for the good news and determination that the short time left to us would be filled with service to Jehovah and nothing would stop us. We had the "truth"

I mention this because despite myself, with my knowlege its all a croc of shit, I am nostalgic sometimes for the memories I have attending these conventions. I personally havent set foot in a convention since 1990 but despite everything have very happy memories of the camraderie and sense of shared purpose.

Now its all presenation above substance: sanitised videos and prepared statments. Wishy washy songs and bring your own lunch.

I wonder if back then they had it more right than now? I am under no illusion the message is wrong and they are nothing but a dangerous cult. But at least back then they knew how to stir it up!

Many like me, who have been lucky enough to escape the Watchtower lead fulfiling lives. But looking back, you can't escape your past, and sometimes on nights like tonight, I remember the not so bad bits.

Hope that makes sense?

38

How Many Here Remember Hearing Details from the Platform on Why a Person was Reproved or DF'd ???

by RubaDub in

i just had this flashback when commenting on another thread about how they used to announce reproof or dfing from the platform.

at least in our congregation, it was a dramatic event (this is what i can remember from back in the mid-late 60's or early 70's when i was a kid).. at the end of the service meeting, just before singing the final song, the brother would announce, "we have a letter that must be read.

the "congregation servant" (my grandfather or later my father) would then slowly walk from the back of the kh to the platform.

Number 6

I can remember when they used to re-instate people and the congregation would burst into spontaneous applause at the joy of it!

The elders took a dim view but from what I recall they just left it as drawing attention to it just made it more contentious.

Then after the meeting everyone would be all around the (usually crying with emotion) brother or sister that had been accepted back into the fold.

One time however I was at a service meeting and just before the song and prayer one smug bastard of an elder announced that John Smith had been re-instated. There was applause and smiling with a feeling of what a way to close the meeting. How joyous! The newly re-instated brother stood up with a massive smile and shouted at the top of his voice "Fooled the lot of you. F*ck you" and walked out never to be heard of again.

Some of us teenagers found this hilarious and burst out lauging amongst the shock of the fuddy duddies.

That took the wind out of the sails of the elders for a while I can tell you.